Take off from the widow thread

[Shooter]

So the relationship between me and this person I met continues to go well...between the two of us. If anyone is not familiar with the other thread, she is a 43 y/o whose husband died about a year and a half ago. We live about 2 hours apart from each other. She has 12 and 8 y/o daughters, I have custody of my 7 y/o son. We are starting to talk seriously about the prospect of making this relationship a permanent thing some time down the line. I cannot move to her for various reasons, so she has to move to me. Therein lies the problem for the 12 year old. She is turning into the monster from planet X over this. She is hysterical at times, hideously disrespectful and unfriendly at others, and whole-heartedly bent on destroying the relationship her mother and I have. Complete refusal to even consider moving at any point. We have maintained that if they move, it will be during the summer and not during the school year. We are doing everything possible to make the move appealing to her, but to no avail whatsoever. Her hysterical antics are causing her mother, my girlfriend, to start second guessing the prospect of staying with me. Her younger daughter is on board with the idea, but the older daughter and former inlaws are giving my girl all shades of hell. My girlfriend is super sweet and used to being able to make everyone happy, so what's happening now is really alien and stressful to her. I feel really bad about bringing this stress to her family, but the relationship has grown for both of us and I really want it to work out. I love this person and feel she would be a huge positive in both mine and my son's lives. And I think I would be great for all of them. Her daughter is in counseling, but nothing earth shattering is coming out of that to help much. I'm not sure what to do or how to proceed in this relationship. We're both just incredibly frustrated and simply want to be happy. So many others are chipping away at us though. How do we manage this? How do we get the older daughter under control? How do I convince my girlfriend that she is doing the right thing by staying with me and moving here? I am really fearful that she may say she has to side with her daughter and stay.

[Duketech]

First Shooter I do not envy you. It is a tough spot to be in. Now just to be the devils advocate, what would you do if the shoe was on the other foot? If it was you having to move your Son & he was horribly against it?

[Shooter]

Well, that's a bit abstract here, considering he's 7 and she's 12. But, to play along, I know that she is attractive, fairly popular, intelligent, and makes pretty decent friends. If he were her age and sported those traits, I would move him, because I know this woman would give him the complete family he is really needing. He and I have a super close relationship, but I can tell he desires more in his life, and she could provide that tenfold. If he had those traits, I would feel that with our support, he would rebound and do well. My own younger sister had to move when she was in high school, after having gone her kindergarten thru sophomore years at the same small town school. She had a boatload of new friends within a couple months, and kept close to her friends back home...in a time before cell phones, email, and laptops. Kids move every day, and the majority of them do ok. I would make sure I stayed on top of him and how he was doing, and try to head off any problems as they arose. I would move him.

[kjmudd]

I would suggest going very, very slow here. The child may be in need of some serious counseling because of the loss of her dad. If I were in your shoes and really loved this woman I would continue to date from a distance for a long time.

KJM

[Shooter]

Well, actually, in pretty much all other aspects of things she is doing well. Her grades are A's, she participates as a cheerleader and student council, has several good friends...overall just does normal kid stuff and doesn't seem to have any other hangups. Of course there is going to be residual stuff from a lost dad, she is seeing a counselor still... and nothing would change in her location until the EARLIEST being next summer, possibly the summer after that. So there isn't going to be a rush to move. But I seriously don't see her changing her attitude towards moving. I think her mom is hoping she's going to come around on the idea, but I really doubt that.

As a sidenote, the school system in my area is better too. Our middle school, that she would attend, is an Illinois "Horizon School", and the high school and grade schools are very good too. More things to do in my area as well.

[Duketech]

Shooter,

My question was meant to extract exactly what you answered. "What is truly best for the children".

I absolutely agree that if moving is going to provide a better "life" for all involved, especially the kids then it is the right thing to do.

After it is all said & done, our kids must come first.

Like KJM said, be patient with the mom. Hopefully she will see it as the right thing to do & it will all come together.

Good luck. I believe you are trying to do the right thing.

[gregory]

For those who are just now tuning into us here at the Midlife Forum, the original discussion thread that Shooter referred to in his first post at the top here is:

Dating a Widow

I generally agree with what others are saying here concerning the 12-year old daughter that seems bent on not moving, and wrecking the relationship. Sounds to me like she is really still working through her own grieving issues with respect to the loss of her father. Was she a "Daddy's Girl"? My guess is yes ... and so she probably feels a sense of loyalty to her father ... and perhaps thinks that her Mom is moving too fast with you, and that none of it is right. Hopefully she will eventually realize that everything does not revolve around her - and that happiness for everyone (not just her) is really what is at stake here. The tough part is that at 12-years old, she is just entering what I call the "all about me" phase that I see in teenagers (particularly teenage girls) ... so the timing here is not the best.

As for what to suggest - I'm not sure if there is an urgent need to move right now ... is there a clock ticking? I'd suggest simply slowing down the pace of everything ... leave it all status quo for now ... and see how things play out over time. If instead you force the 12-year old to move, you probably stand a greater chance of her being even more unhappy and rebellious ... and that won't be good for the overall situation.

Regardless of what you decide - please keep us updated because this is an excellent learning situation for all of us here. I can see similar issues occurring with divorced people, too - where the children resist a new boyfriend/girlfriend ... so what you are going through has broad applicability, my friend.

[Shooter]

Alright, "broad applicability"! lol

Well, here's the meat of the situation as it stands. Mom states she just can't in good conscious move her daughter if the girl is going to be hysterical wreck she was a couple nights ago. She says she wants the girl to continue to get to know me and she'll see what a good person I am and warm up to me more. I tell her that he daughter has no reason whatsoever to "warm up" to me. Getting into a better place in me will simply, in essence, give mom the ok to go ahead and move them, something daughter absolutely doesn't want. Mom tells me that that is exactly what her daughter said. She has virtually nothing to gain from being more friendly with me, and if she figures out that her behavior is the one major thing throwing a wrench into plans, she'll keep it up. We have found out that she even has friends who have parents that are divorced and remarried, and they are giving her pointers on what to do to wreck the new relationship. So, in essence, I have a 12 y/o with a serious attitude and no reason whatsoever to need to like me, who is virtually the key to my otherwise wonderful relationship getting to the point I would like it to get to. Yes, girlie was a "daddy's girl" and now she's the odd one out. Her mom and I have each other, her younger sister can have some company with my son who is near her age, and the older daughter is hanging out there by herself. So, just more to fuel her neurotics. And yeah, the mom had already had one of her friends who has older kids tell her that she was not going to like her daughter for the next couple of years due to the age she was at and the various things that go along with it. Girls that age are such freaks! So now I have to figure out how to make nicey nice with the alien creature who hates me because I personify a move she doesn't want to do.

In terms of a clock ticking, I guess I would just say that in some ways there is. First, as said previously, the only time we would consider this move is in the summer. if it is not this coming up summer, then would go to the next. That is a LONG time to maintain a long distance relationship, that is already very frustrating now. I am in my mid 40's and, now that I've found the person I really feel I should have been with 20 years ago, I would like to start living that life with her asap. Selfish, I know, but there it is. I gots feelings too. Secondly, my son really needs a stable and steady mom figure in his life. She can't do it visiting every couple of weekends, and lots of those times are when my son is with his mom. If we wait til the following summer, that's another year and a half of his young life gone by w/o that influence I really would like in it. I happen to feel that her coming down here and her daughter starting in middle school here would give her the opportunity to establish friends before high school starts. Wait til the following and she walks into high school first year down here. And finally, my own personal opinion is that waiting that extra year is not going to make a damn bit of difference. Girlie is going to throw a fit then too, but then she has the mindset that she caused things to delay a year before, so she can try it again.

One timing thing that is working against us is the Catholic Church. She really wants a Catholic wedding if/when we do it. I am not Cath and have been divorced twice. I have started the process of getting these taken care of, but the Catholic church is really dragging along with even getting things started, so it quite possibly might not be done by next summer.

So, there you go, that's the hurricane I'm currently flying around in.

[kjmudd]

They are a package deal. I came out of a failed blended family marriage where my psycho ex-wife basically rejected my daughter, who was working through abandonment issues related to her Mom ditching our family when she was little.

If my ex wasn't a psycho and I had a chance to do it again I would have dated for a couple of years before making any commitment, instead of the few months that I did, with disastrous results.

Based on what you have posted if it were me I would tread carefully and go really slow and err on the side of caution and what is best for the kids. You have only known her since September right? And already talk of moving in .....I dunno if I were the kid I would be freaked out too.

Sounds like you are in a whirlwind relationship and the kids are swirling around in the sky with you guys.

KJM

[gregory]

Shooter - you have only been dating this woman since September? And now you are talking about moving in together? Wow - that is ffffast! Is it possible that either one of you is "rebounding"? Not saying that is bad - just saying that fast moves can be tricky when one or both has just gotten through the starting gate.

I'm one of those who believe that rushing anything concerning a relationship is risky ... that taking things somewhat slow is essentially a risk-aversion strategy. From what I've seen - it takes people at least a good six months before you start seeing the entire range of their behaviors ... meaning that everyone is usually on their best behavior for at least that long. In your case, you also have her children's behavior to consider - and you already know there are challenges there. This will be interesting to see how it works out. We are on your side - and are hoping for the best, most definitely.

On the Catholic church - I am Catholic (a non-practicing Catholic), and did the big Catholic wedding thing for my first marriage. The diocese here places a lot of requirements on you - even if you are Catholic. There are a lot of hoops to jump through - and I jumped through all of them ... to ensure (in the church's mind anyway) that my marriage would be solid. Well - we went through all of that, and the marriage still went nuclear. And afterward, after my civil divorce - the Catholic church (which doesn't recognize civil divorces) had me go through their annulment process ... which was HELL and more dramatic/traumatic by far than my civil divorce. My point is - even though I'm Catholic, I personally am not certain that all the things they are most assuredly going to put you through will be worthwhile or enlightening or anything other than cumbersome ... especially since you are not Catholic. Are they going to make you convert to Catholicism, and take all the classes, etc.? I'll be interested to hear what they require of you, and how you wind up feeling about it when it is all done